Gluten Free Beer Reviews
Posted by Mike in GF Product Review, Gluten Free BusinessesFeb 12th, 2009 | 184 responses
Here is a list of gluten free beers that can satisfy your beer craving and let you old a cold glass bottle in your hand once again!
Beer is one of the things I miss the most since switching to gluten free. Most of all I miss the convenience of going to any friend’s house or any gas station and being able to grab a beer, especially on a hot summer day. When I first switched to the gluten free diet, I didn’t like the taste of any of the gluten free beers. They just didn’t compare to what I was used to. After being gluten free for a year, I now enjoy many of the gluten free beer options.
Please watch the Beer Tasting Videos for more information and candid reactions.
Or View the Gluten Free Cider review and video (Coming Soon!)
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Redbridge
ABV: 4.8% Price: $8.99 /6 pack of 12oz. bottles
“The alcohol content of Redbridge is 4.8% by volume. And just in case you and your readers are curious, it has 160 calories and 16.4 grams of carbs per 12-ounce serving.” -Dave @ Redbridge
“Redbridge beer doesn’t need to make promises to stand out from the crowd; its very essence sets it apart. Redbridge is made without wheat or barley, so the approximately 3.2 million consumers who are unable to drink beer made with barley due to Celiac Disease or because they follow a wheat-free or gluten-free diet can once again enjoy a great tasting beer. Redbridge is a rich, full-bodied lager brewed from sorghum for a well-balanced, moderately hopped taste.”
- “I’m usually a light beer drinker, and Redbridge had too much of the wrong flavor for me. A light version may be pretty good. We need a cheap, mass produced, easily found, light gluten free beer.” Mike H. -Kansas City, KS (immediately after going gluten free)
- “Redbridge is one of my favorites! Its taste falls somewhere in between Bud Light and Budweiser” Mike H. -Kansas City, KS (a year after going gluten free)
- “Closest comparison I normally give people is Schlafly Pale Ale, but “not quite right”.” Steve -St. Louis, MO
- “I must say, I was really skeptical given that it is an Anheiser Busch beer, but I was surprisingliy shocked when I tasted it. It tasted like a good amber/red beer. The only beers that I could compare the flavor to are Killian’s Red and BJ’s Brewery’s Jeramiah Red. Both really good red beers.” Ganj
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Bard’s Tale
ABV: 4.6%. Price: $9.99 /6 pack of 12oz. bottles
“As ardent beer lovers (and diagnosed celiacs ourselves), we made it our mission to make a beer available to everyone again. And so the Bard’s Tale Beer Company, LLC was born. Our marching orders were clear: Develop a line of craft brewed beers that use gluten-free brewing grains. And not just any beer would suffice- we would create a product that was as good as anything produced by traditional craft brewers.”
- “I can’t drink more than one of them. This one starts out good, but by the end of it, I’m swearing it off.” Steve -St. Louis, MO
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New Grist
ABV: 5.7% Price: $9.99 /6 pack of 12oz. bottles
“The first beer brewed without malted barley or gluten-containing products to be authorized by the U.S. Government. Each batch brewed at Lakefront’s Milwaukee headquarters is tested for gluten prior to fermentation, before being bottled and shipped. New Grist is currently available nationwide in six packs of 12-ounce bottles.”
- “By far the most drinkable. Light and summery.” Steve -St. Louis, MO
- “I gave New Grist a second chance after going gluten free for six months. It was much better the second time… I had probably forgotten what Bud Light tastes like and probably has heavily influenced by what I was eating. I’ll be adding New Grist to my choices at the liquor stores from now on.” Mike H. -Kansas City, KS
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Green’s
ABV: Endeavor 7%, Mission 6%, Quest 8.5%, Pathfinder 7%. Price: $5.99 /500ml bottle
Inspired by strong European beers and developed to a closely guarded secret recipe, the specialist beers are brewed with a strong body, crisp taste and a refreshing flavour, losing none of the taste but all of the allergens. Where as most conventional brewing practices employ either Isinglass or gelatine based products in the clearing process, Green’s only uses natural tannins, which as well as giving them an attractive hazy body, makes them suitable for both Vegetarian and Vegan diets. Green’s beers DO NOT contain any of the following allergens or products thereof: Gluten, Crustaceans, Eggs, Fish, Peanuts, Soya beans, Milk, Lactose, Nuts, Celery, Mustard, Sesame seeds, Sulphur dioxide and sulphites.
- “Delicious, but a little pricey. Endeavour Dubble – This is great to have every once in a while. I never really liked this type of beer with or without gluten. Quest Tripel – Same goes for the tripel. WAY too flowery and hoppy for me. But it does have something around a 9% Alcohol content, and all the Greens come in half liters.” Steve -St. Louis, MO
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St. Peters
ABV: Sorghum 4.2% Price: $4.99 /500ml bottle
“St. Peter’s Brewery, has announced a new addition to its range of award winning beers G-Free. G-Free is a gluten-free beer suitable for consumption by coeliacs and the product has received approval from Coeliac UK, the charity for people with coeliac disease, to carry their logo and licence. Described as a clean, crisp gluten-free ale with a pilsner style lager finish and aromas of citrus and mandarin from American Amarillo hops.”
- “Kinda fruity, like I would want to put an orange in it. Reminds me of a Blue Moon or Micky’s” -Joe & Jim -Overland Park, KS
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Hambleton
ABV: Toleration 4.8% Price: $7.99 /500ml bottle
“Hambleton Ales’ Gluten Free Ale and Gluten Free Lager deliver the full flavour and satisfaction expected from British ales in a gluten and wheat free formulation.”
- “Very sweet all the way- finishing with a very fruity flavor. Comparable to a apple cider like Woodchuck, but with different fruits.” Mike H. -Kansas City, KS
- “This is my favorite of them all…. WHAT IS THAT IN MY BEER?!?!? …nevermind, I don’t drink beers with sediment!” Joe S. -Overland Park, KS
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Messagere
ABV: 5% Price: unknown
“Blown in on the wind and tide, chasing behind her older sister, Messagère Pale Ale, Messagère Red Ale dreams of reaching port to the delight of your taste buds with a brand new GLUTEN-FREE beer. Red Ale’s gorgeous mahogany colour hides subtle hints of dried fruit and authentic hops, leaving a delicate, woodsy taste on the tongue.” INGREDIENTS: Fresh water, rice syrup, rice malt, glucose extract, buckwheat, millet, hops.
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Rampo Valley
ABV: unknown Price: unknown
“R.V.B brews some of the world’s most exciting beers including the award winning gluten free Honey Beer and the dynamic Skull Crusher with 10% alcohol.”
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Sprecher
ABV: 4.2% Price: unknown
“Sprecher’s gluten free Shakparo Ale is a West African Shakparo-style beer brewed from sorghum and millet. An unfiltered, light, crisp ale with a cider or fruit profile and a dry vinous aftertaste, it is best characterized as an easy-drinking or session beer perfect for summer gatherings. This beer pairs nicely with lighter fare such as sandwiches, salads, chicken, fish, and spicier foods.”
“In the Sprecher’s “Limited release” section: http://www.sprecherbrewery.com/beer.php?cat=5
Sprecher’s gluten free Shakparo Ale is a West African Shakparo-style beer brewed from sorghum and millet. An unfiltered, light, crisp ale with a cider or fruit profile and a dry vinous aftertaste, it is best characterized as an easy-drinking or session beer perfect for summer gatherings. This beer pairs nicely with lighter fare such as sandwiches, salads, chicken, fish, and spicier foods.” -Vin
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Please watch the Beer Tasting Videos for more information and candid reactions.
Or View the Gluten Free Cider review and video (Coming Soon!)
184 Responses to “Gluten Free Beer Reviews”
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In the Sprecher’s “Limited release” section: http://www.sprecherbrewery.com/beer.php?cat=5
Sprecher’s gluten free Shakparo Ale is a West African Shakparo-style beer brewed from sorghum and millet. An unfiltered, light, crisp ale with a cider or fruit profile and a dry vinous aftertaste, it is best characterized as an easy-drinking or session beer perfect for summer gatherings. This beer pairs nicely with lighter fare such as sandwiches, salads, chicken, fish, and spicier foods.
Here’s a starter cider list..
Woodchuck Draft Ciders (Amber, Dark, Dry 802, Granny Apple, Pear, and Raspberry)
Cider Jack (all styles)
Woodpecker
Magners Irish Cider
TraderJoe’s Newton’s Folly Authentic Draft Cider
Doc’s Draft® Hard Apple/Pear Cider
Strongbow – currently gluten free – Please see below*
*Green Mountain Beverage is the importer of Strongbow English Cider into the US from H.P. Bulmers in Hereford England. This means that we do not produce the liquid here in Middlebury, VT and do not have control of the recipe/ingredients. Due to this it is hard for us to say that Strongbow will always be gluten free. We have had it tested and will continue to test all of our products periodically.
Woodchuck is the gluten free beer I enjoy the most.
Here are my favorites in order:
1. New Grist – By far the most drinkable. Light and summery.
2. Redbridge – Closest comparison I normally give people is Schlafly Pale Ale, but “not quite right”.
3. Greens – Discovery Amber (http://www.glutenfreebeers.co.uk) – Delicious, but a little pricey.
4. Bard’s Tale – From here down, I can’t drink more than one of any of them. This one starts out good, but by the end of it, I’m swearing it off.
5. Greens – Endeavour Dubble – This is great to have every once in a while. I never really liked this type of beer with or without gluten.
6. Greens – Quest Tripel – Same goes for the tripel. WAY too flowery and hoppy for me. But it does have something around a 9% Alcohol content, and all the Greens come in half liters.
So that’s my 2 cents on gluten free beers. You can get all of these at Friar Tuck’s. I am very happy that there are people out there brewing GF beer, but, right now, I would trade a case of any of them for one Busch beer.
Thanks Steve! Congrats on the new baby boy! How early can they test for celiac?
I agree, I’d trade my right arm for another day in the tasting room at the AB brewery!
Redbridge is the best! I don’t care for new grist,and haven’t tried any of the others.
I also like fox barrel ciders.
I like Greens, but way too pricey. I’d rather have a Strongbow.
I live in Canada, Calgary to be precise and wonder does anybody know if Redbridge (or any others for that matter) is available here. I have just been to the States and found it. Not bad at all.
Messagere reminded me of the rubbish I used to brew in Kuwait where there is zero alcohol. At least not in the stores.
I emailed AB for a distributor…no reply.
Numerous web searches reveal nothing
I love Greens but only buy it once in a while. I buy Redbridge weekly and while it’s not Sam Adams it works for me.
redbridge- pretty good but different than your normal bud, it has a rather bitter finish but not bad, its not really a light beer but it sure isnt a dark beer however it is not filling.
woodchuck is awesome, its sweet and light and goes down smooth. great with a meal. very refreshing but i can see how some will say it is too sweet, i havent gotten to try any style other than the amber but i assume some of the other ones would fit those who think it is too sweet better
-matt
I am drinking my very first gluten free beer while sitting on my deck enjoying the incredible Long Island, NY weather (72 – 38% humidity, cloudless skies)- so, if i was sweating a bit perhaps it would be more of a “beer day.” I bought a case of Redbridge for $34.95 + deposit (NY is $0.05/btl or can). It’s not bad at all! I like all kinds of beers – lite included, so when the beer distributor owner warned me that the first one may not satisfy and in fact it did….I was pleasantly surprised!
Now, I look forward to trying some of the others listed above.
Give it a try – I think you’ll like it.
MikeMM
Thank you EVERYONE for the great reviews! Keep them coming!
@MikeMM: Glad to hear you like Redbridge! I wasn’t a big fan at first, but now that I am forgetting what “real” beer tastes like, I am starting to like more of the GF beers.
Hey Vin, a much better vegan / vegitarian cider list can be obtained at the “veggie wines” site: http://www.veggiewines.co.uk/popularbeers.htm#cider
Magners Irish Cider IS NOT vegan or vegitarian. Source letters can be found on the aformentioned site; I also read somewhere on the net the animal product they use is geletin.
eewps! too many pages open.. sorry all!! I thought I was posting on another site!
I do not have celiac, but, my daughter does.
I purchased and consumned some redbridge beer with her. I really enjoyed the hop flavor. I have consumned many styles of beers and ales over the years and was pleased to see AB producing this product!
Kuddos to Bud. Also, I enjoy many of the
glutten free products I have tried!
i got to try the 802 version of wood chuck the other day and it is very good as well, not as sweet as the amber version and maybe a touch rounder (not sure if that is the right way to describe it), those that are used to drinking beer all night probably could do it with this, ive had a couple of friends tell me thy couldnt drink the amber all night
-matt
Jan: Over time I have started to like Redbridge more and more. I hated it at first… I guess I’m finally forgetting what Bud Light tastes like. I really wish some more major manufacturers would step up and take AB’s lead. I would really love a 30 pack of cans of GF beer for under $20, LOL!
Matt: I found a Woodchuck variety pack at a liquor store. It was nice to try 4 kinds and keep changing it up. It sounds “fruity” but I really like the pear version.
ya mike ive been trying to find a variety pack but no luck here, the kroger up here only has amber and granny smith (havent gotten to try granny smith yet) and then back where my parents are they have 802 and amber, not sure if they have other ones, havent gotten a chance to check
-matt
[...] see my article on Gluten Free Beers and leave a comment about the ones you have tried. Some examples of gluten free beer: Redbridge, [...]
I lucked into finding Redbridge at a restaurant in Ft Myers, Florida which had a Gluten-Free menu. My closest comparison of it to another beer would be that it tastes similar to a Honey Brown or possibly a cross between that and Red Stripe. At first sip there is a slightly off/skunky taste, but after that first sip you don’t really notice it anymore. I did notice they don’t fill me up like other beers – which is good, leaves room for dinner or another beer! I would definitely like to try the New Grist so will look for that here in Florida. The first thing I did once I got to an internet connection on my trip was look up Redbridge and find out where I could find it in Florida. I was VERY happy to see it was carried in several of my local grocery stores. I’ve only been wheat-sensitive for about a year and a half now but I was really missing my beer!!
I run a gluten free beer review blog since I didn’t find one solely devoted to Gluten Free Beer from a GF perspective – I have a few reviewed up there and am always looking for people who would like to guest review because there’s only so much beer I can drink and still be able to type a coherent sentence
[...] Please see the full gluten free beer review article HERE. Please Share: [...]
I agree with Steve about Bard’s- at first I thought that I liked it, but now I think it leaves a funky after taste. I really enjoyed one of the Green’s beers (the lighter one) and thought it was different, but good. Redbridge is okay but I am not interested in drinking more than one since it is kind of heavy. I wasn’t crazy about St. Peter’s.
Thank you for doing this review. I’ll check out some of the options listed here.
Unfortunately, I’m still looking for a gluten-free beer, and by beer I mean something that would stand up to the German Purity Law – not brewed with rice and corn as adjuncts like Bud products.
I want the hops to grab onto my tongue and not let go instead of light swill that I could get from any urinal. Are there any actual beer-lovers out there who are gluten free, meaning people who know what IBU means, have brewed their own, and would otherwise drink selections like Arrogant Bastard, Bell’s, Rogue, or Dogfish head? Have any of you ever heard of the Beer Judge Certification Program (BJCP)?
Perhaps I’ve just discovered an untapped market…
@Willie
Yeah, you are talking about a completely untapped market. I think the closest thing to what you are looking for would be one of the Green’s products. They are distinct from the rest.
With the gluten free industry still in its infancy, the beer companies are trying to appeal to the masses with their taste. It will probably be a while before we start seeing speciality gluten free beers.
willie i dont know how it could stand up to the german purity law since it only allows water, barley, hops and of course yeast was added to the list, and since we cant use barley thats impossible.
i am planing to try and play around with brewing in the next year or 2 (money/space permitting) to try to get a fuller beer, not sure how its going to work but im going to try
-matt
If you live in Portland, Oregon, you’re in luck, because you can get a GF beer on tap at Deschutes Brewery in the Pearl District. I had one along with a GF sandwich and was in absolute heaven!
[...] Switch 2 Gluten Free reviews several brands of GF beer. [...]
Hi, I won’t bore you with my trials and tribulations (of my GF project. But it’s good to see so much activity in the GF Beer world, it certainly has moved forward since I’ve ‘got involved in 7 years! I have tried all but a couple of yours e.g. US, and much as I have wanted to taste a great beer, most of them are wanting, not the say that they are all duff, but they’re getting there! Great to find this forum, as this how I started out at a weekend’s brew-course. Makes sense to me, though I may have a brewer, but this make so much sense, what a saving, that and a beer, now that’s heaven! Oh and I’ll have that pizza too!
Cheers Ben Cowell aka BC’s Gluten Free Beer
I am visiting in AB Canada and was just at the local jar store picking up some La Messagere an ok brew and came across Estella Damm which advertises Gluten Below 6ppm its in the fridge chillin but really looking forward to trying something different.
You folks in the US are fortunate to have so much variety i’ve been trying to get redbridge and a few others listed here to no avail.
Keep up the good site
Cheers
@GK
I’m not a big fan of that Messagere stuff, but Damm is GREAT. I can taste little difference…from memory. perhaps a taster with a non celiac buddy would be the acid test
Where are you from? I cannot find Redbridge anywhere in AB either. Greens is around, expensive but if you do the math cost p unit alcohols works out ok. Yes yes I know we don’t drink beer to get pissed, but that is how I justify the occasional indulgence of Greens. I am in AZ right now, with Redbridge in da fridge.
@Richard
I currently live in Kansas City, but I bought all the beers while in St. Louis. Friar Tuck’s is a local liquor/wine chain that had them all.
They are tough to find, but I can usually find Redbridge at any larger liquor store.
You may have to ask the manager to order them for you.
What is the closest to what would be considered motor oil???? I like Vitamin G with occasional forays slightly lighter or darker. I am in process of weaning off glutens (don’t want to upset the system and trigger a migraine). I tried Redbridge and wanted to scrub my tongue with dish washing liquid. Thanks.
angela your asking about an extremely dark beer right? AFAIK you dont really have any options in the GF world.
as to weaning off gluten vs total removal from the diet, believe me it is worse to taper off than cut out, if anything you should get less chance of a migraine from going cold turkey, by cutting out the gluten you are doing the exact opposite of upsetting your system, you are removing the thing that is kicking your own butt
-matt
Matt,
I have other food sensitivities (onions, which are evil) and gluten doesn’t kick it off. But, when I quit eating or drinking something my body is used to I tend to get migraines. I’ve dealt with it often enough. Let’s just say that quitting smoking cold turkey wasn’t fun due to frequent migraines (with auras).
I guess I will have to do without beer, not something I have everday now, just something I enjoyed occasionally.
angela, i wouldnt surprised if your migranes get better once you get off the gluten and give it the month to clear fully from your body.
just use this as a good excuse to drink high dollar liquor/mixed drinks
-matt
o and angela, ~looks down at plate~ onions are evil? (whinny little kid voice)
-matt
Matt,
Yes, I eat a bite of one, you will find me in a dark, cool room taking whatever promises to get rid of the migraine.
I would like to read a review of GF beers by someone who actually used to drink real beer, ale, and stout. Comparing a GF beer to Busch, Bud Lite, Coors Lite, or other American commercial swill does me no good.
Are there any GF beers that can be compared to German beers, Bass Ale, or Yuengling?
I am convinced that finding out I was allergic to Gluten and no longer eating it in any form, has saved my life.
Redbridge is my favorite. It’s actually the same recipe as Budweiser American Ale only with fermented sorghum instead of the normal barley & wheat. It tastes nearly the same, a little lighter & for some reason the carbonation pops a tad more. Haven’t tried the others yet. Just got diagnosed last week & Redbridge is the easiest for me to get since Kroger carries it.
Folks,
I have been told by a friend that Heineken, New Castle have VERY little gluten – I even saw something on the web that said the above have .005 ppm, and the FOOD standard is 20 ppm to be GF. I called Heineken and they said that they are not GF but believe that Barley they use has far less gluten than allot of beers. Some believe that the lighter color (Pilsner and German Beers) are much lower in gluten. Many bloggers say they can drink these beer with no adverse reactions, however could you be doing damage to your system and not know it? If the .005ppm is correct, knowning there is not beer std. for GF, like food 20 ppm. I am encouraged. I have tried all the others Redbridge, Bards, Greens etc.. and I do not like the taste. I have always enjoyed dark beer or Guinness etc.
If anyone out there can add to the info I have heard, PLEASE share!
Keep up the fight.
@frank, the issue with PPM is that .005 ppm in one ounce is not the same as .005 ppm in 40 oz. to me, while i am not as sensitive as other celiacs (decently sensitive though) why put something in your body that you know has something in it (even in low qualities) that is bad for you. also there is a huge issue we dont know about: when the gluten is broken down so the resulting proteins still affect us? some people say yes and others say no or they dont know but there isnt a lot of research on it. another thing is that many of us are sensitive to wheat, rye, barley, spelt, oats on top of just the specific gluten issue.
i think it would be better for us to push more companies to produce more varied GF beers (i.e. lets flood sam adams with emails )
basically ya you might be ok drinking it but i think the majority of celiacs that are strict to the diet wouldnt want to, i know i wouldnt.
-matt
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Robert-
I am just the guy you are looking for. Was quite the fan of microbrews, as well as ‘yard beer’ (Pabst, Busch, Stroh, etc.)
I’ve not found ANY GF beer that can hold a candle to the worst ‘normal’ beer. I’m holding out great hope for the Green line; Belgians are my favourite! Sorry to be such a downer, but that’s just the way it is (in my view, at least.) It’s like trying to find a decent GF bread; sometimes the flavour is close, but the mouthfeel is all wrong.
@robert, one of the things ive found with a lot of gluten free stuff is that you have to throw out comparisons to normal gluten foods. the only things i have found that are spot on are some pastas (but they can get a touch soggy when reheated), and bagels that i got from gfmeals (but they were something like 10-12 bucks for 4 and 75 bucks or less of orders cost like 25 bucks to ship, pretty much a rip off IMHO).
that being said i am looking forward to checking out a local beer place that says they have 3 GF beers and i hope they have some meads.
i am going to try and put a bug in my friends ear that likes to brew beer/mead/wines and wants to do a brewery last i heard, hopefully he could be convinced.
until we can find a great GF beer, liquor and woodchuck ftw (i personally dont mind red bridge though)
o also lets all email sam adams, seriously, i think they would be the best bet we have of any of the major companies to really get into this area
i revoke my support of redbridge, i had it again this weekend and it is very disappointing from what i remembered, i know it was light but i dont remember it being this light. i ended up adding some butterscotch schnapps and it was alright but meh, hope the other beers this local place are going to be better. i think i will just need to stick to wood chuck and liquor
I’m trying a gluten-free diet to see if it helps some related symptoms I am experiencing.
My wife picked up these three beers: Redbridge, Bard’s and New Grist. We also had some ciders.
I’m normally an IPA and Pilsner type beer drinker. I like some light beers, but I am not a fan of most domestic, mass-produced beers.
Redbridge was okay. The attack was good – it has a bit of an Irish Red type of crispiness to it. The aftertaste left something to be desired; It resembled saccharin.
New Grist was awesome. A good, lighter, pilsner-like finish. Reminded me of Anchor Steam, but a little less hoppy. Good stuff.
Bard’s was next. This was the darkest and most complex of the three beers. Very even attack, sustain and aftertaste. Sort of reminded me of an IPA, without a metallic bitterness to it. Has some kind of sweetness going on.
I’d say my least favorite was Redbridge.
thank god for whole foods, i was able to get 5 new gf beers today (new grist, bards, and 3 of the greens), god they are expensive but at least i can try them and see what i think to at least get them once in a while. responses to come
ok so the bards pretty much tastes like redbridge, not as bitter of a finish and a bit more rounded of a flavor (i guess is the best way to describe it) but honestly still not great.
new grist now is a lot different, not really bitter of a finish (note i am drinking this right after the bards so i might just be desensitized to it). it has a fruity almost spicy kind of tone, i really cannot pick out the flavor but i would go so far as to say if you like white wine you might like this from the way it tastes.
neither of these are something i am going to sit down and go “hey i really want a newgrist/bards” but maybe i am just not that much of a beer person and still wouldnt be if i could drink normal beers
greens to come
Like always, Thanks Matt! This Summer, I finally hit that point of “Hey, I really want a Redbridge.” LOL
It is too hard to be around people with coolers full of cold beer and not want one!
Redbridge is still slightly my favorite.
I just realized something! Learning to drink gluten free beer was like learning to drink regular beer for the first time. The first handful of times, it isn’t the best thing in the world, but after awhile, it gets better and better.
you know, im going to have to go back on my thoughts again. just had a redbridge (i was parched at the time) and it really was better than some of the other beers. i think it is for sure a summer, early afternoon beer, not really a with meal beer (in my uneducated in the world of beers pallet). mike i might try and get a couple of my friends together this weekend who are not gf to do a tasting of redbridge, bards, and newgrist if i have time and if i can i will post up a summary of their opinions too.